Some people recommend in this blog post to invest in Kuetzal, Envestio and Grupeer. Unfortunately it turned out Kuetzal and Envestio were scams. There are concerns around Grupeer as well, so my recommendation is to avoid depositing any money.
I decided to run an experiment so reached out to bloggers from the industry and asked them how to invest 10.000 EUR in P2P lending today if they would to have start all over again.
As this question gets asked a lot among new investors, I thought a post like this will serve them a good starting point. However, it will be equally useful for a more experienced investor to improve the platform allocation in their P2P portfolio. So I hope everyone will have something to learn from this.
About the experiment
Before diving more, I must say that this is just an experiment, and nothing more. Everyone’s opinion is biased to their own experience, and what works for some, may not work for others, or you. So please keep this in mind and do your own research before making any investment.
Having that said, let’s carry on.
To be honest, initially I wanted for this to be a post just about my own opinion, but then I quickly realised that the wisdom of the community is always better.
That’s how I decided to turn this into an experiment and include my fellow bloggers as well, and see what they think about it.
And will take this opportunity to thank you so much guys for the positive reactions, and helping me put this piece together. It feels awesome to be part of this great community!
The experiment consisted of asking 3 questions:
- What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?
- What amount of money would you allocate for each platform? Here I would be interested to see if your decision is based on loan types each platform serve, like consumer loans, business or real estate. For example: 40% consumer, 40% real estate, 20% business.
- Anything else that you may want to add?
So how each blogger would invest 10.000 EUR?
Use the quick links below to jump to a specific blogger, otherwise keep scrolling.
- Jørgen Wolf from financiallyfree.eu
- Sterling from p2p-millionaire.com
- Lars Wrobbel from passives-einkommen-mit-p2p.de
- Marco Schwartz from marcoschwartz.com
- Ido Shkedi from colminey.com
- Oscar Harrington from explorep2p.com
- Mark from obviousinvestor.com
- Angelo from p2pinvesting.eu
- Janneke from financiallyindependentmom.com
- Peter from p2pincome.eu
- Matt from thewahman.com
- Domenico Cervo from financeshot.com
- Janis from investingsmall.eu
- Marius from thesmartinvestor.eu – me 🙂
Jørgen Wolf from financiallyfree.eu
- Mintos: 2.000€
- Robocash: 1.000€
- Envestio: 1.500€
- Crowdestor: 1.500€
- Grupeer: 1.500€
- Bulkestate: 1.500€
- Kuetzal: 1.000€
The reason for the wide diversification is, that I would like to invest more at a later point. This setup would allow me to follow different platforms and have a broader perspective of the Crowdlending market.
Visit Jørgen’s website to learn more
Sterling from p2p-millionaire.com
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?For someone with zero exposure to P2P and being a total newbie, I would only choose one platform to start off and invest the full €10k there.
- It is the biggest and most stable platform in Europe.
- It is the easiest platform for diversification with loans currently available from 30 countries around the world.
- There is a wide range of risk profiles available – something for every taste.
- Portfolio statistics are industry leading.
- Most loans come with buy back guarantee.
- Returns are good – my portfolio currently runs at 13+% p.a. returns.
- You can be as involved as you want to be – it can be ‘set-and-forget’ or you can actively trade the secondary market – it’s up to you!
- No problems with cash drag.
- Highly liquid secondary market (we sold €1M of loans within 72 hours for our liquidity test!)
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?Within Mintos I would recommend a diversification strategy based on loan originators. As most loans are provided with a buy back guarantee, the principal risk is Loan Originator failure. Diversifying investments over many loan originators helps reduce the impact of a LO failure.
I currently hold less than 4% of my portfolio in any one originator, with a target to reduce that to 3%. If my portfolio as a whole returns an average of 12% p.a. then every 3 or 4 months, I have enough income to cover the potential failure of one loan originator without losing my original capital.
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?My €1M autoinvest settings will soon be live on our blog – along with an explanation of my thought process and strategy. When friends and family ask me to recommend an investment in the current macroeconomic climate – that post is a longer version of the answer I tend to give them.
UPDATE: The post Sterling was talking about is now live!
How to invest a million in P2P lending? Our €1m Mintos Auto Invest settings revealed!
Visit Sterling’s website to learn more
Lars Wrobbel from passives-einkommen-mit-p2p.de
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?Mintos, Estateguru, Viainvest, Crowdestor
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?50%, 20%, 15%, 15%
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?At my recent visit at Mintos, I realized again, that they are meanwhile on a completely different level than the “smaller” platforms and they have a brilliant CEO with Martins Sulte. Thats why i would put my most money in there.
Visit Lars’ website to learn more
Marco Schwartz from marcoschwartz.com
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?I’d invest in Mintos, Fast Invest, Grupeer, EstateGuru and Crowdestate as those are the one I have the best results with / that I’ve now been investing for a long period of time.
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?I’d put 60% in the 3 more ‘classical’ P2P lending platforms (Mintos, Fast Invest, Grupeer) and 40% in the one dedicated to real estate (EstateGuru and Crowdestate). For the first part I’d put 50% Mintos, 25% Fast Invest and 25% Grupeer. For the real estate part I’d put half in each.
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?I’d add that what is the most important is to carefully choose your platforms: really spend time reading tons of online reviews about each platform before investing on them.
Visit Marco’s website to learn more
Ido Shkedi from colminey.com
|*One of the RE P2B platforms: CrowdEstate, Bulkestate, EstateGuru, Envestio, Crowdestor, or EvoEstate||1.500€|
I would probably split 10.000 EUR among Mintos (70%), Grupeer (15%) and the remaining 15% into one of the real estate P2B platforms (since I don’t see much point in investing less than 1500 EUR in anything): CrowdEstate, Bulkestate, EstateGuru, Envestio, Crowdestor, or EvoEstate.
Of course, personal preference should be taken into account, as well as the available opportunities on the marketplace. I joined Mintos in Jan 2018 as my first foreign platform, and hadn’t branched out to other platforms until the rates on Mintos dropped in August 2018. I don’t regret the lack of diversification throughout those first few months, because I needed that time to evaluate and get comfortable with the smaller Baltic platforms.
Some investors might treat loan financing as an alternative to direct real estate investment, and allocate their entire loan portfolio to platforms like EstateGuru – that’s also fine.
Visit Ido’s website to learn more
Oscar Harrington from explorep2p.com
Oscar recommends to split between Mintos and EstateGuru. He doesn’t give exact percentages, but highlights the importance of diversification on Mintos. On his website you can find two useful tools to help with that: Mintos Lender Ratings and Mintos Loan Scanner.
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?There’s a tradeoff between investing in lots of platforms (good for diversification) and complexity (investing in more sites takes more effort). 10.000 EUR is a relatively small sum so one or two sites would be sufficient.
Mintos and EstateGuru are probably two of the better options in Europe right now. However there are many more that are worth considering that we cover.
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?I think the more important consideration is what types of loans to purchase within each platform.
We really like for example the bridge loans on Estateguru. They are secured against assets that are finished and easy to check the valuations. There’s no construction risk. Unless there is a big fall in property values the loans should perform well. Rates are typically over 10% there too.
Mintos is a really well run, high quality platform. Most people invest in Mintos loans with ‘buyback guarantees’. Rates have been increasing and there are some really good opportunities there if you know where to look. However quite frankly there are several lenders that are very high risk of default in our view. That’s why we started our Mintos lender ratings. To help people make an informed decision and avoid the garbage.
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?We think P2P has the potential to get really big. But for now the regulatory environment has fallen behind and there are many sites we would not invest our own funds on. We have blacklisted several sites that we don’t feel comfortable listing. It’s important for investors to stick to the highest quality sites and the best loans on those sites. Don’t just chase high rates – that’s how you can run into problems.
Visit Oscar’s website to learn more
Mark from obviousinvestor.com
Above you have Mark’s low risk portfolio. Mark also talks about a high risk capital portfolio, so do check out his opinion below.
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?That would depend mostly on personal circumstances. If the capital was high risk capital and just a very small part of a persons overall wealth, or if it was all the money you had so you needed to keep it relatively safe.
If it was the latter, I would probably go at least 50% in Mintos, then split the rest between Grupeer and Robo.Cash. Mainly because Mintos (I believe) is about the best euro platform, the other two are established and trustworthy companies with reasonable returns for the risk.
On all three platforms you can get short term loans (so access to your money is closer in an emergency). If the money was purely risk capital and I was just looking for the highest returns, it would have to be Envestio and Crowdestor for me as I believe both give excellent risk/reward for mostly secured lending.
Remember, most of my investments are currently GBP UK investments so the euro platforms I discuss here are just the ones I know. There are many others out there but I can’t really comment on them as I haven’t invested in them yet. I do intend to try more out in the near future though. Hope that makes sense?
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?Low risk: 50% Mintos, 25% Grupeer, 25% Robo.Cash. You can get a good mix of all the different types of loans you need if you put these together.
Higher risk: 50% Envestio 50% Crowdestor. There is more profit potential in business loans generally so to get the 16% to 22% returns, this is where I would be.
Of course it’s always possible to do a mix of all 4 platforms as I do now.
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?Everyone’s appetite for risk is different and based on their own personal circumstances. Doesn’t matter what opinions you get back from this survey, please still do your own due diligence on each platform, make your own investment decisions and remember that these P2P lenders are not banks 🙂
Visit Mark’s website to learn more
Angelo from p2pinvesting.eu
Angelo wrote a great post on the topic, where he provides an in-depth explanation on the above platform allocation for the 10.000 EUR. Make sure to check it out here.
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?Mintos (P2P), Crowdestate (Real estate) and Linked Finance (P2B).
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?50% in Mintos (P2P), 2500 in each of the other two (real estate and P2B).
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?Invest the minimum in each project to maximize diversification.
Visit crowdexpert.eu’s website to learn more
Janneke from financiallyindependentmom.com
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?Let’s start with my allocation:
- € 2.500 Envestio -> I like their projects, high interest rates, never had a late payment.
- € 2.500 Crowdestor -> Good projects, high interest rates, they’re building up their buyback fund and never had a late payment.
- € 2.000 Mintos -> Lots of loans available, buyback guarantee and options to invest in other currencies. I’ve got a part of my Mintos money in Rubles to invest in loans up to 19%. No problems there as well.
- € 2.000 Grupeer -> Steady platform, never had a late payment and they just feel solid. Interest rates are a bit lower than other platforms.
- € 1.000 Agrikaab -> I love their projects. It feels like I can really help the people in Africa with my money and I should even get a nice return for it. I really believe in their business. But the risks are probably a bit higher as it is in Somalia and they aren’t able to get an insurance for their company. But I’m willing to take a risk for these awesome ideas.
My reasons to choose these 5 platforms are:
- I’m not scared to take some risk and I only invest money I don’t need. If all my projects or platforms would fail or quit, it really sucks of course, but it’s not the end of the world.
- I’m investing in these platforms for a while now and they all feel good and I haven’t had a single problem with them so far.
- I haven’t seen bad experiences from other people that invest on these platforms either.
- I don’t invest in loans below 12% as I haven’t seen or experienced a correlation yet between loans with higher interest rates that perform worse or fail more. People always say that the higher the interest rate, the higher the risk, which sounds like it must be true. But I haven’t seen proof of that in my experience so far.
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?I’m not really looking at the type of loans. I look for platforms that feel good, that are performing well and do what they say. And of course also have good interest rates.
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?I definitely suggest to really dive into a platform before putting a lot of money into it. Investigate your options, read reviews and check out the platform itself. It’s also smart to try a platform with a small amount of money first to see how it works and how you feel about it. These are things I didn’t do when I just started out and didn’t know anything yet about investing.
Visit Janneke’s website to learn more
Peter from p2pincome.eu
For someone just starting out without too much knowledge of the p2p lending space, I would advise putting the majority of his/her funds in Mintos just because of the diversification it provides. Maybe even 50%.
Then Grupeer, which is my personal second favourite platform and provides decent diversification as well. That in combination with the amazing loan performance and high rates make Grupeer a platform that I would put around 20% of my portfolio.
Then, I would choose ViaInvest for around 10% of my portfolio. The rates are not as high as Mintos or Grupeer and they are at a fixed 11% but I really like the platform. All the loans are originated by Via SMS Group and that’s why I am proposing a low portion of your portfolio because you can’t diversify in the platform. The group is profitable and if you look at the balance sheet it looks like their numbers are improving year-over-year and are growing rapidly.
The remaining 20% can be put at higher risk/higher reward business crowdlending platforms. Maybe 10% in Envestio and 5% each in Crowdestor and Kuetzal.
Visit Peter’s website to learn more
Matt from thewahman.com
|Crowdestate / Bulkestate||3.000€|
|Envestio / Kuetzal||1.000€|
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?I would choose to invest in Mintos, Grupeer, Crowdestor, Crowd Estate/BulkEstate and Envestio/Kuetzal.
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?
- Mintos – 20%
- Grupeer – 20%
- Crowdestor – 20%
- CrowdEstate/Bulk Estate – 30%
- Envestio/Kuetzal – 10%
- 20% exposure to consumer loans (through Mintos)
- 30% through business loans (i.e. Crowdestor, Envestio)
- 50% through real estate (i.e. Grupeer, Crowd Estate and Bulk Estate).
So really I would look at 20% consumer loans and 80% business loans. Then within business loans it would be closer to a 60% / 40% split for real estate vs other business.
The main reason behind my selection is that I believe that a business is more likely to pay off a loan (compared to a consumer) as they are usually well established and already generate income. Businesses also usually require bigger loans than consumers, so will place large amounts of collateral to secure the loan. This security means that the investor is more likely to get their money back if something was to go wrong.
Furthermore, I chose to invest more in real estate as everyone needs a place to live, making houses a higher priority than other “nice to have” items (like a loan for a local cafe, or clothing brand).
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?If you were only investing 10.000€ altogether, I would suggest not to invest it all into P2P and/or Crowdfunding projects. These projects generally offer higher returns than traditional investments of stocks or real estate, however, they also have much higher risks (i.e. you may walk away with nothing – look at the recent case with Lendy).
Determine what protections are in place when you invest in a business or other loan. Is there a buyback, is there collateral, is there a provision fund etc.
I would look at having a core holding of index funds, with the remaining money to be invested into P2P / Crowdfunding platforms.
Possibly 80% index and 20% P2P / Crowdfunding.
Visit Matt’s website to learn more
Domenico Cervo from financeshot.com
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?If I had to invest 10.000 EUR, today I would divide them into 3 platforms: Mintos for sure, because in my opinion currently it’s the most stable platform, Grupeer and EstateGuru.
I would so in order to diversify my portfolio between consumer loans (Mintos and Grupeer) and real estate projects (EstateGuru).
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?Practically, I would divide my 10.000 EUR in this way:
- 5.000 EUR on Mintos
- 3.000 EUR on Grupeer
- 2.000 EUR on EstateGuru
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?In my opinion this is also a good starting point for those who are starting to invest in P2P lending.
Visit Domenico’s website to learn more
Janis from investingsmall.eu
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?I would use my previous experience which I summarized in table in my blog – https://www.investingsmall.eu/compare-eur-p2p-lending/
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?I do not think I would change much from my initial strategy where I invested my starting capital equally in the top rated platforms (https://www.investingsmall.eu/compare-eur-p2p-lending/).
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?For starters I would definitely recommend using Mintos. You can choose to start simple with pre-defined strategies and later use more custom ones when you get the hang of it. It offers a great functionality to diversify your portfolio. I covered setup of portfolio in several blog posts e.g., https://www.investingsmall.eu/2018/09/07/advanced-auto-invest-strategy-for-mintos/, https://www.investingsmall.eu/2019/01/06/mintos-auto-investment-with-5-strategies/. Please keep in mind that currently you can get loans with up to 15% yearly yields. In one of the latest monthly yield statements I covered the changes made to my initial Mintos setup to take advantage of the highest yield rates (https://www.investingsmall.eu/2019/06/02/summary-of-returns-may-2019/).
Visit Janis’ website to learn more
Marius from thesmartinvestor.eu – me 🙂
Now is time for my opinion:
#1 What platforms would you choose to invest 10.000 EUR?If I am to start all over again I would now choose 4 platforms to invest: Mintos, Grupeer, Envestio and Crowdestor. My strategy would be to invest 50% in consumer loans, and the other half in business and real estate loans.
My first choice is Mintos as is the biggest and most reliable platform for EUR investments. I would only invest in consumer loans with a clear strategy of choosing the best loan originators. At the same time I would try to keep the exposure on a single loan originator anywhere between 5% and 10%. Read my Mintos review to learn more.
My second choice, Grupeer, will offer me exposure to business and real estate loans. Check out my Grupeer review to learn why I consider them a great choice to any P2P portfolio. Also good to know that they’ve been doing steps in the right direction to resolve some of the outstanding problems and they will continue to do so. See their roadmap here.
Why Envestio and Crowdestor?
I like them due to high returns they offer. I am willing to take more risks, in order to maximize my returns. Remember, I only invest money that I can afford to lose.
#2 What amount of money would you allocate for each platform?
- 5.000 EUR on Mintos – 50%
- 3.000 EUR on Grupeer – 30%
- 1.000 EUR on Envestio – 10%
- 1.000 EUR on Crowdestor – 10%
#3 Anything else that you may want to add?If you take a look at my current P2P portfolio you will see that is different. That’s because I didn’t have a strategy in place before and I randomly invested my money. Now I am changing things, moving towards the allocation presented here.
One more thing I would like to say and I am done.
These 10.000 EUR should be part of a broader investment portfolio. If they aren’t, then you might as well invest less to maintain a good balance. Read this post to understand what I mean.
Statistics and observations
|Platform||Votes number||Votes percentages|
Votes number – how many bloggers picked that platform.
Votes percentages – what’s the percentage of bloggers that picked that platform.
Some interesting observations:
- Mintos is number #1 choice for all bloggers (15 votes out of 15)! Around 45% (67.000 EUR) of the entire pool of money (150.000 = 10.000 x 15) would be invested into Mintos. So Mintos is not just number #1 choice, but almost half of money would be invested there.
- The majority of bloggers (10 votes out of 15) would invest in Grupeer, which places the platform on second place. However, only 15% of the entire pool of money would be invested there, which is significantly lower when comparing it with Mintos (45%).
- Envestio and Crowdestor are really similar to each other in terms of preferences, and any of them could be placed on 3rd place. In terms of money allocated only 8% would go to any of these two platforms.
- As for the other platforms, not a lot to say. My personal opinion is that we can consider them as a way to further diversify our portfolio, if we want to, but not necessarily.
How to invest 10.000 EUR in P2P lending will still remain an open question, but I sure hope this post provided some good insights on where to go next, if you’re new to this.
For example, there is a clear preference for Mintos, and one would not go wrong if it would invest the majority of money there, if not all. But, as many have noted, pay attention to loan originators you’re going to choose. Some of them are really garbage.
In any case, remember that everyone is unique. What works for me or others doesn’t work for you. We all perceive risks in different ways and we also have different goals.
So don’t take this experiment as the absolute truth. There is no such thing.
Instead, you can take clues of what’s the right direction, but choose your own path.
How would you invest 10.000 EUR?
How would you invest 10.000 EUR in peer-to-peer lending?
What platforms will you choose?
Do you prefer more consumer loans, or business and release estate backed loans? What allocation will you go with?
What ever you think, feel free to leave a comment in the section below.
Until next time,
Disclaimer: This is a personal blog, containing our opinions and views, and nothing you read here can be used as investment advice or recommendation. You should also know that some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I may earn a commission. Read the full disclaimer here.